# Low range / high resolution 360 degree sonar

**URL:** <https://discuss.bluerobotics.com/t/low-range-high-resolution-360-degree-sonar/16210>\
**Category:** Ping Sonar Devices\
**Tags:** ping360\
**Created:** [March 6, 2024, 4:55pm UTC](https://discuss.bluerobotics.com/t/low-range-high-resolution-360-degree-sonar/16210 "2024-03-06T16:55:00Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 3\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![GavXYZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dc4da7/32.png) [@GavXYZ](https://discuss.bluerobotics.com/u/GavXYZ)\
**Post date:** [March 6, 2024, 4:55pm UTC](https://discuss.bluerobotics.com/t/low-range-high-resolution-360-degree-sonar/16210/1 "2024-03-06T16:55:00Z")

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Ahoy  
I want to use a scanning sonar to assess the cross section of a culvert (pipe) in turbid water. I want to look for changes in the section.  
The Ping 360 we have is great but the frequency is probably too low, the turntable too slow and the minimum 0.75 m range too large.  
Has anyone come across across something with a higher frequency, short range, faster turn speeds?  
If not, I wonder could I modify the Ping360.

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**Author:** ![EliotBR](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/discuss.bluerobotics.com/eliotbr/32/6937_2.png) [@EliotBR](https://discuss.bluerobotics.com/u/EliotBR)\
**Post date:** [March 11, 2024, 9:00am UTC](https://discuss.bluerobotics.com/t/low-range-high-resolution-360-degree-sonar/16210/2 "2024-03-11T09:00:05Z")

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Hi @GavXYZ,

- We’re currently evaluating an updated Ping360 firmware that increases the scanning speed
  - [some extra context](https://discuss.bluerobotics.com/t/ping360-auto-transmit-update/16187/2)
  - for reference, a 1m range scan on the new candidate firmware (when using the ethernet configuration) currently takes ~3.5 seconds for a full revolution of 1 gradian steps, compared to ~8.8 seconds with the old firmware

- The minimum range is caused by signal noise due to internal reflections and resonance of the device enclosure, and is dependent on the transmit duration and receiver gain
  - Distances below 0.75 m might be usable, especially when the scan range is set low and the target density is very different from water, but we don’t want to claim that as a general specification because it’s not really feasible during more typical operation
  - On my desk with a 1m scan range configured the noise stops at ~0.6m, but a strong target may be detectable as close as 0.3m away, although I’m not certain whether that noise reduces faster or slower when the device is in water  
 ![Screenshot 2024-03-11 at 7.23.34 pm](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/bluerobotics/original/2X/4/40ff20c5a9e404f5d3b4541abc86a70908e4832c.png)

- The Ping360 has a variable transmit frequency (which is controllable between 500-1000 kHz through the advanced device settings in Ping Viewer)
  - It’s worth noting that the transducer is tuned to 750 kHz, so straying from that reduces both the transmit and receiver efficiency, which results in weaker responses but also faster die-down of the internal reflections

> [@GavXYZ](#):
>
> I wonder could I modify the Ping360.

If the available settings and options aren’t sufficient then you’ll most likely need to use a different device. The transducer head is oil-filled and has some potted components, so modifying its internals is unfortunately not simple.

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**Author:** ![GavXYZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dc4da7/32.png) [@GavXYZ](https://discuss.bluerobotics.com/u/GavXYZ)\
**Post date:** [March 23, 2024, 10:22am UTC](https://discuss.bluerobotics.com/t/low-range-high-resolution-360-degree-sonar/16210/3 "2024-03-23T10:22:07Z")

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That’s great Eliot. Thanks for your considered response.